• platypus_plumba@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      What?

      Edit: my research says that half-fifth is how they call 4.5, which is insane. Then they multiply that by 20, holy shit, they are mathematical geniuses. So:

      7 + 4.5 * 20.

      WHAT THE FUCK.

          • lemmyng@lemmy.ca
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            9 months ago

            That one at least makes some sense: halfway to seven vs seven and a half. The more confusing ones are quarter seven (6:15) and three quarter seven (6:45). If you didn’t learn to tell time with an analog clock it can throw you off since they are the opposite of eg quarter to seven. It’s even worse - in German it’s a regional thing, and they’ll look at you as of you’ve grown a second head if you use a form they’re not used to.

      • virku@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Half fifth isn’t 4.5 but 90 because of 4.5 * 20. Its the same with half third being 50 and half fourth is 70.

          • virku@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Norwegian, but I was tought this by a dane.

            Fems is the short as you say, but that isn’t really possible to translate correctly. Thats why people translate it to fifth. The proper danish for a fifth is en femtedel. I might be mistanken here, but I dont think any dane would ever talk about 4.5 as halv fem (half five), but as fire komma fem.

            The exception is when we talk about the time in the nordics. Then half passes four is half five.

            • PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Dane here. We don’t use half-third to say 2½ except for the time of day, like half-twelve is 11:30.

              The way we count is indeed that way though: halvfems is short for halvfemsindstyve, literally half-five-times-twenty, meaning ½5×20 = 4.5×20 = 90.

              We don’t use “fems” tough. That would mean femsindstyve which is 5*20 and we say a hundred of course.

              So we have this:

              • 10 = ti = ten
              • 20 = tyve = twenty.
              • 30 = tredive = thirty.
              • 40 = fyrre = forty.
              • 50 = halvtreds = short for half-three-times-twenty.
              • 60 = treds = short for three times twenty.
              • 70 = halvfjerds = short for half four times twenty.
              • 80 = firs = short for four times twenty.
              • 90 = halvfems = short for half five times twenty.
              • 97 syvoghalvfems = seven and half five times twenty.
              • 100 = et hundrede = One hundred.
              • nicolairathjen@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                There is a relic from this system still in use: halvanden (1 and a half). Though I doubt many people know the origin of the word.

  • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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    9 months ago

    Context:

    German:

    • “siebenundneunzig”
    • = “sevenandninety”

    English:

    • = “ninety-seven”

    French:

    • “quatre-vingt-dix-sept”
    • = “four-twenty-ten-seven”
    • BlanketsWithSmallpox@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      It’s shit like that why I wonder people just don’t update their languages, remove useless letters, nonsensical loan words exonyms, etc.

          • grue@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Oxford University Press doesn’t have governmental enforcement powers the way the OQLF does.

          • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            No, French has private dictionaries that aren’t normative. This isn’t that.

            The Académie is a quasi-governemental institution built by Louis XIV to impose a normative version of French. They initially reformed the language but quickly ended up enforcing the linguistic status quo. French hasn’t had a (much needed) structural reform in about two centuries.

            What the academy defines to be “proper French” is essentially the only French that is used by the government, media, and school system, and they refuse to acknowledge changes in usage at every turn.

            This means that French is set in stone and mid-19th century books have essentially the same grammar as 21st century French apart from some very minor differences.

            (I won’t get into the systemic and very successful repression of minority languages which is closely related).

      • JayObey711@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        German did. And it worked. One of the reasons is probably that written German is uniform everywhere. I imagine language reformes are harder and less effective when dialects are still big.

      • Taigagaai@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Like many things in life, languages aren’t necessary logical but I’m looking forward to your efforts to finally get everyone into Esperanto!

  • arymandias@feddit.de
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    9 months ago

    Not to defend the French but the more correct representation would be 4 * 20 + 10 + 7.

    Also if you take this meme to the extreme it would be best to just say “97” which requires a unique word for every number instead of a system to construct them. So I guess there is a balance to be struck in number composition.

    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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      9 months ago

      also “ninety” is literally just a shortening of “nine ten”, it’s not like the french pronounce the whole thing either, i’d wager it usually comes out more like “katvandisett” which isn’t much worse than “ninetyseven”

  • jinarched@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    80 (quatre-vingt) comes from the base 20 system. That’s a vestige from pre indo-European languages (specifically the Gauls) that ended up influencing France.

    Interestingly (if I’m not mistaken), in Switzerland they actually say “huitante” and in Belgium they say “octante”.

    • fluckx@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      In Wallonia ( french belgium ) you’re also likely to hear “nonante” for 90 IIRC

    • hakase@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      The Gauls were Celtic, which is Indo-European. Maybe you meant “Pre-Romance”?

      • jinarched@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I was mentioning Indo-European in the draft of the comment and then I changed it and I didn’t modified it correctly. You are right.

    • MxM111@kbin.social
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      9 months ago

      Maya use mostly base 20 system. Mostly, because all digits go from 0 to 19, except for the second one, that goes from 0 to 17.

  • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    And the French get offended if you use the wrong word. I went to a shop there and asked if something was ninety (there is a word for that). The shopkeeper gives me a scathing look and says with emphasis it’s four twenty ten.

      • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        frowned upon

        as in “you just wiped your ass with my language, my country and the history of my ancestors” it seems

        • Vrijgezelopkamers@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          They kind of stare at you as if you just farted in the most obscene way possible.

          Or they passive-aggressively make you repeat what you said until you say it ‘right’.

          Or they reply in a kind of exaggerated broken English.

          • The_v@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Not the ever so polite French!

            I spent a lot of time in the country when I worked for a French owned company.

            It’s a beautiful country, too bad about the epidemic of sticks in their asses. I am so glad it hasn’t spread to their neighbors.

  • MisterFrog@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Growing up bilingual in German and English, can I just say german’s “7 + 90” is pretty dumb too.

    397 is 300 + 7 + 90: 100s 1s 10s. For bigger numbers you’re doing it repeatedly.

    In German for every set you’re saying the digits and tens in the wrong order. You get used to it, but only if you grow up in Germany (I didn’t), else it forever does you head in reading numbers.

    • RunawayFixer@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Dutch also has that problem, it causes so many errors.

      Old English used to have the same problem ( https://en.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Old_English/Numbers ), but at one point they must have seen the light, probably some time after they were conquered by the french in 1066. I do remember reading a Charles Dickens story where a person said a number with tens and ones in the reverse order and I wonder when it finally died out completely in English (if it ever did, maybe it’s still in use in some dialects).

      Edit: thirteen, fourteen, … There’s still commonly used remnants of this reverse order in English, we’ll never get rid of this insanity :)