I’ve been using Linux Mint since forever. I’ve never felt a reason to change. But I’m interested in what persuaded others to move.

  • miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml
    39·
    11 months ago

    never really bothered with the spinoffs, as the model of Arch makes them useless and more problematic to deal with

    I highly enjoy using EndeavourOS. But then again, I wouldn’t classify it as a spinoff, it’s pretty much vanilla Arch, but purple.

    Now Manjaro on the other hand… Tried it and understood why so many people don’t like it within the first week.

    • estebanlm@lemmy.ml
      122·
      11 months ago

      Mind to elaborate a little bit more about the Manjaro problem? I am driving it since a couple of years without any issue but I keep hearing this… now I am afraid :)

      • LeFantome@programming.dev
        2·
        11 months ago

        I hope it works for you forever. I am not going to get in an argument with the other Manjaro users here that will come to argue with you.

        Just keep in mind that most of the people warning you away from Manjaro have a story that basically sums up as “I used to love Manjaro until, one day, it totally broke on me. Now I won’t touch it.” Sadly, this includes me. Will you join us one day? I hope not.

      • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
        32·
        11 months ago

        Keep using it if it works for you.

        Manjaro detractors are usually:

        • People who do stuff they shouldn’t, like using non-recommended kernel or driver versions or replace critical system components from AUR, then blame it on the distro when stuff breaks.
        • People who don’t understand how AUR works and think that Manjaro holding back binary packages for a couple of weeks has any effect on AUR (which is built from source…)
        • People who can’t get over the times when they didn’t renew their certs or when they accidentally DDoS’ed the AUR. It doesn’t matter if the distro is good or not. Those instances of carelessness should be held against it forever.
        • People who can’t stand the fact it’s a commercial distro.
        • People who can’t stand the thought of any Arch-based distro that dares to do anything different from Arch (other than make the install easier, that one seems to be acceptable for some reason; but there are more extreme people who dislike that too).
        • LeFantome@programming.dev
          9·
          11 months ago

          I am trying to think of how to respond to this without being a jerk.

          Let me skip to the end. Until very recently, I thought of Manjaro users as innocents that just did not understand the risk. Like islanders living next to a volcano that had never erupted in their lifetime.

          I still view most Manjaro users that way. Manjaro defenders though I now think of as dog owners whose animals have bitten multiple times. When told, the owner insists that “my dog would never do that” or “if it did, you must have done something wrong”. I am done arguing with those people. All I can do is warn others that this dog has bitten several of us and you may not want to enter that yard. If you do, who knows, the dog may be friendly. Or not. Again, all I can tell you is that many of us have scars. Use that information as you will.

          Most “Manjaro detractors” I have encountered have years of experience with both Manjaro and other Arch distros. Their tales come from experience. When they share their cautionary tales, there are often Manjaro defenders whose best defence is just to deny that what the “detractors” are saying ( about their own experience ) is real.

          My core question for the defenders would be, if it is our fault, why do we only encounter the problems on Manjaro?

          Let’s go through the bullets above one by one:

          • I never did that on Manjaro. I probably do it more on EOS. Why only problems on Manjaro?
          • why does my lack of knowledge of how the AUR works only break things on Manjaro?
          • this bullet is the best. It admits that Manjaro has repeatedly broken things but we should not hold it against it. Literally this is saying that “Manjaro breaks things” is wrong because, while it does, we should just get over it. Hilarious.
          • how does attacking the “detractors” address the claim that Manjaro breaks things?
          • how does attacking the “detractors” address the claim that Manjaro breaks things?

          I got in a lengthy back and forth with a Manjaro fan the other day where I repeatedly related the ways that Manjaro used to break on me and how that does not happen for me on vanilla Arch or EndeavourOS. They just kept coming back telling me that it could not have happened and, if I thought it could, that I did not understand how the AUR works. It was insane. Basically, this guy could not follow what I was saying to him. His response to his inability to understand the scenario that I was describing was to insult my intelligence and expertise.

          Look loser. I don’t care if you believe me that your dog bites. I will continue to warn people and they can decide if they want to risk it or not.

          • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
            12·
            11 months ago

            Isn’t it funny how none of the people who claim that Manjaro “just broke” on them can recall what the problem was? They can’t point at a bug report. It’s nothing they did, naturally (they’re “experienced” users, after all). It just broke.

            Meanwhile, it never broke for me or others, in years of use, with dozens of AUR packages installed. So yeah. I think I’ll stick to concrete evidence like a rational person, thanks.

    • tutus@links.hackliberty.org
      61·
      11 months ago

      Now Manjaro on the other hand… Tried it and understood why so many people don’t like it within the first week.

      I see this a lot and nobody really ever explains, properly, why.

      I have used Linux off and on for many years (mainly server OS such as RHEL and CentOS). I have now migrated from Windows desktop to Manjaro KDE. Using it for a year. Had one issue (wouldn’t boot after a kernel update), which I sorted quickly. Other than that it’s been rock solid.

      But this isn’t a ‘I have a great experience so you’re all just haters’ post.

      I know the stuff about it being a week or behind Arch. I remember something about the maintainers (can’t remember specifics) but they seem to be minor niggles that don’t affect most people.

      Genuine question.

      Why do you dislike Manjaro? I also know it’s a common theme to dislike it, so any other insight there?

      • Illecors@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        241·
        11 months ago

        Not the guy you asked, but my 2 main gripes are:

        • holding back main repos and not aur? That’s dumb and just asking for trouble.
        • sheer incompetence. Remember their certs expiring? Remember their public recommended workaround? That’s webdev level of bs. They absolutely do not understand their own setup.
      • LeFantome@programming.dev
        1·
        11 months ago

        I am responding too much but this question seems genuine so I hope this answer helps.

        1 - I, at least, do not “dislike” Manjaro. I think it is very good looking. I loved the out of the box experience. I liked it a lot.

        2 - Manjaro broke on me multiple times. I now consider it “unsafe”. That is not really “dislike”.

        Why unsafe?

        1 - the project has governance issues. You can say we should get over them but they have been repetitive. Once bitten, twice shy as they say.

        2 - more systemically, using the AUR is less safe than on other Arch distros

        Why? Well, primarily because the Manjaro repos “hold back” packages for something like 2 - 4 weeks ( I honestly cannot remember but the number is not the issue ). Manjaro does not curate the AUR itself though so the AUR is “current” compared to other Arch distros.

        I will not run through all the ways this can break things. I will point out though that when Manjaro defenders say that “it all syncs up again in a couple of weeks”, they are wrong.

        It is not about delaying updates ( sorry if I am insulting your intelligence to say this but Manjaro defenders often insist on thinking this is “the problem” that people have with Manjaro ). This cannot be the problem. Different users update at different times. I do it frequently. Some people wait months.

        You can manually delay updates on any Arch distro. EndeavourOS even includes a utility ( eos-update ) to specify a specific delay on package updates.

        In short, the problems stem from the lack of repo sync at INSTALL time. Manjaro differs from every other Arch distro in terms of what packages are available when you install software from the AUR.

        You can believe that this matters, as I have learned, or you can believe that it does not. I hope it works out for you. I really do.

        • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          In short, the problems stem from the lack of repo sync at INSTALL time. Manjaro differs from every other Arch distro in terms of what packages are available when you install software from the AUR.

          Which is completely irrelevant because AUR “packages” are only very loosely related to Arch binaries. Your average AUR is just a source package developed by someone who most likely doesn’t use Arch, plus a thin wrapper script that says “it needs these packages to compile and these packages to run”.

          As users of source based distros like Nix and Gentoo will show you, you can get a well-made source package to compile and run on an extremely wide variety of system states (and also distros, architectures etc.)

          The fact that binaries on Manjaro are a few weeks late is completely irrelevant for something compiled from source from a reasonably recent source package.

          You seem to be under the impression that AUR packagers perform extensive testing. They don’t. They run it once, if it works for them they publish. They did that weeks or months or in some cases years ago compared to the time you install. By which time the relevance of that test to Arch or Manjaro or any Arch distro is tenuous at best.

          There is one case where an AUR package can fail installing, and that’s if the packager has requested a dependency in a version that for some reason isn’t available on your system. This can happen to Manjaro due to the delay but also to any other Arch distro depending on whether the user is willing and able get that version at that particular time. Not everybody is willing to drop everything and update three times a day.

          The other thing that people can’t seem to get through their head is that AUR packages will break eventually as the system binaries are updated. You have to recompile AUR packages when they break. This is the same for all Arch distros.

    • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
      13·
      11 months ago

      A few years ago I wanted to get away from Ubuntu on my desktop PC so I sat down and considered about a dozen of the most recommended Linux distros install images.

      My requirements were:

      • Image should be live so I could test it without installing.
      • Should work out of the box with everything I could think to throw at it: wifi, Bluetooth devices including controllers, network shares, play music/video out of the box, printing, audio devices on USB etc.
      • Easy to install and maintain. No need for brain-dead install or zero maintenance, I’m a seasoned Linux user and anyway I don’t want to be absurd, but I also don’t want to spend my spare time debugging or maintaining the desktop system. I have a server for that.
      • Recent packages and frequent updates, but stable.
      • Usable for everyday use, work (mostly Citrix and other forms of remote desktop) and of course gaming.
      • Rolling release.

      Guess which distro ticked absolutely every single box.

      • LeFantome@programming.dev
        5·
        11 months ago

        You are trolling us.

        If you want stable, the answer is not Manjaro. If you do not have time for debugging, the answer is for sure not Manjaro.

        • lemmyvore@feddit.nlEnglish
          12·
          11 months ago

          Suit yourself. I’m telling you that you’re sleeping on one of the most user-friendly, up to date, gaming-ready, stable and generally hassle free distros out there, and it’s coming from someone who actually tried all the popular ones.

          In exchange you just have to stick to a LTS kernel and not replace critical system components from AUR. Which I think you’ll agree are reasonable conditions for all Arch distros, heck, all distros.

          Try it, don’t try it, up to you.