My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff?
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist. So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust. So is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that. Your point?
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist.
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust.
They literally committed a genocide in Africa as part of their political project, they wanted to basically manifest destiny the Mediterranean, did you not hear about it because the victims weren’t (conditionally) white? Do you think they didn’t help the Germans do the Holocaust?
is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites
Okay this shows me you can’t give a coherent definition of fascism. Also imagine not thinking scientology is racist. Lol.
Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that.
Lolol are you seriously going to make that argument? Do I need to pull up photos of Jewish people who collaborated with the nazis?
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
My definition of fascism is the usual one you’ll hear from any anarchist: People who send me to bed. But feel free to read Umberto Eco and observe how the USSR gets a score of 10 out of 14, where of course one would be sufficient for fascism to coalesce. Also how you were all too happy to display rejection of modernism by your implicit dissing of liberal democracies. Please, go ahead, tell me about the grand colonial empire of Estonia! Of Greenland! Of Samoa!
She asked you to give a definition of fascism that doesn’t include the liberal democracies, and you went with "meets some (but not all) of the list from Ur-fascism), a standard that would absolutely include all of the liberal democracies.
You gotta be fucking trolling, what fucking western liberal democracies? France?
The US, Britain. France.
Western Europe was almost all constitutional monarchies until the end of WW2 and even then what fucking backing of Tsarist Russia?
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
Also who the fuck is trivialising the holocaust now by mentioning it in the same breath as pogroms, as if the scale and systematic nature of the former don’t make them completely disanalogous?
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
I reiterate my former point: Fuck off tankie scum.
whose academic background has fuckall to do with history since he’s a fucking philologist.
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
Being genocidal and being exceptionally genocidal both earn you a one way ticket to “shoot on sight” land in my book, debating which one is worse is thoroughly pointless from a moral standpoint and a red herring from a political science standpoint as being a fascist does not require a kill count (though it usually predicts a pretty fucking high one.)
Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
Oh, so to clarify, you don’t think that the USSR could be described as morally equivalent to fascism?
Only in the sense that it is trivial in scale compared to the alternative socioeconomic systems of the time.
Also a woman, stop being sexist by assuming a male default.
During the Russian Civil War the US, Britain and France sure militarily and financially supported those nobles and priests who did pogroms regaining power. They went so far as to invade the USSR. They had previous working relationships with them and wanted them back in power. The nobles and priests were antisemitic, as were their western partners.
Morally? I’m not talking about morally I’m talking objectively and no of course it was objectively fascist. So was Italy and they didn’t do the Holocaust. So is Scientology, in case you’re looking for an example of non-racist fascists. So are Kahanites and they definitely aren’t antisemitic, being Jews and all that. Your point?
Okay, define fascism in a way that excludes liberal democracies and their colonies or neocolonies but includes the USSR. I dont think you know what fascism is.
They literally committed a genocide in Africa as part of their political project, they wanted to basically manifest destiny the Mediterranean, did you not hear about it because the victims weren’t (conditionally) white? Do you think they didn’t help the Germans do the Holocaust?
Okay this shows me you can’t give a coherent definition of fascism. Also imagine not thinking scientology is racist. Lol.
Lolol are you seriously going to make that argument? Do I need to pull up photos of Jewish people who collaborated with the nazis?
My definition of fascism is the usual one you’ll hear from any anarchist: People who send me to bed. But feel free to read Umberto Eco and observe how the USSR gets a score of 10 out of 14, where of course one would be sufficient for fascism to coalesce. Also how you were all too happy to display rejection of modernism by your implicit dissing of liberal democracies. Please, go ahead, tell me about the grand colonial empire of Estonia! Of Greenland! Of Samoa!
She asked you to give a definition of fascism that doesn’t include the liberal democracies, and you went with "meets some (but not all) of the list from Ur-fascism), a standard that would absolutely include all of the liberal democracies.
This is a elementary school misreading of that text, it was explicitly not supposed to be a litmus test.
Marxism is literally a modernist philosophy, liberalism is rooted in the enlightenment era. Have you opened a history book in the last 5 years?
Marxist democracies > bourgeois oligarchy aka liberal democracy
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The US, Britain. France.
The US, France, Britain, and other countries literally invaded the USSR to try to restore the monarchy.
My point is that the amount of antisemitism in the soviet union wasn’t even approaching the level of pogroms, which was much smaller scale than the holocaust.
Why don’t you call me woke next, CHUD.
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I completely agree with your gist but
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
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