I’m curious to hear thoughts on this. I agree for the most part, I just wish people would see the benefit of choice and be brave enough to try it out.

  • ExLisper@linux.community
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    1 year ago

    Can we please stop this nonsense already? With Linux on desktop we had two goals:

    • hardware support
    • software support

    We achieved both goals. Since probably 20 years ago I’ve been using Linux exclusively both at work and at home. All my hardware works, all my software works. Why would I care if Linux gets to 20%, 80% or 100% market share? At this point if some companies or game developers don’t support Linux it’s their loss, I will find an alternative. And if some users is still using Windows it’s also their loss. I feel sorry for them but I stopped encouraging people to use Linux years ago. We’re good, our feature is secured, we don’t need to push for more users anymore.

    • JasSmith@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      You have a very loose definition of “achieved.” There are countless hardware devices lacking support. Microsoft Office, the most widely used business productivity tool in the world by far, still has either limited or no support on Linux. Most of the top 20 games on Twitch are either completely unsupported, or require onerous workarounds with poor performance.

      It’s great that you have achieved what you desire, but you’re not representative of everyone.

      • Züri@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Office 365 (which I have to use at work) works well enough in their Online Web variants for me on my Linux laptop.

        But yeah. Still a lot of hardware especially the kind for casual people is still not well supported by their manufacturers.

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        I’m using outlook on Linux (at work), it has a web interface. Office 365 works on Linux. As for games it’s entertainment, you can choose what you play. There are alternatives for pretty much everything (Figma, Gimp. Krita, Blender). Even if Linux gets 50% of the market some companies/game studios still will not support it. We will never get to 100% support so that’s simply unrealistic goal. You can disagree but for me the goal was to make sure that Linux will not get abandoned and die. The danger was in proprietary protocols and standards, in closed source firmware and drivers. Today it may seem obvious but when I was using Linux 20 years ago it was only possible because someone was reverse engineering protocols and drivers. Main communicator on the internet had only windows client, lots of hardware didn’t have Linux drivers, MS was actively trying to kill Linux by promoting closed standards. It was a real possibility that this shit will spread and make Linux on the desktop unusable. Today we’re passed that. We won. If someone is on windows it’s because they want to play specific games or use specific software. Their choice, I don’t care.

      • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        It’s not Linux’s job to run software designed for another OS. It’s great that it sometimes does (thanks to wine/proton), but as a litmus test it seems a little odd.

        I’m with that guy. It’s exceptionally easy to run Linux full time these days for anyone who wants to. (Have been doing so since 2007, and it was already easier then than it was for the trailblazers.) It requires almost no thought to ensure the hardware I buy will be fully supported.

        I don’t care in the least if someone chooses something else to run on their computer, and I’m years past the point where I can even understand why I’m supposed to.

        • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          It’s not Linux’s job to run software designed for another OS…as a litmus test it seems a little odd.

          LOL it is the job of an operating system (ANY operating system) to be able to run the software you need/want. So in that regard, it’s not “odd” at all.

          • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Go run a Mac binary natively on Windows and let me know how that goes for you.

            I don’t care whatsoever if someone wants to use Windows for any reason at all. I take exception to this notion that Linux has some responsibility to be compatible with everything in the world while Windows only has to be compatible with Windows though.

            Just make your choice and be open about it, don’t manufacture requirements that are not universal.

            • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              I take exception to this notion that Linux has some responsibility to be compatible with everything in the world.

              Well this is a point you’ve fabricated in your imagination because no one thinks that. Windows and Mac will both run whatever software a typical user needs. Linux often does not. That makes it not suitable for most users. It’s as simple as that.

              • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                You seem to be laboring under the impression that the success of Linux is tied to the needs of the mythical “average user”, in addition to thinking that Linux is somehow responsible for the fact that MS doesn’t make Office binaries for it, or Autocad doesn’t make binaries for it, etc.

                We don’t need to agree on either of those, and as I said earlier, I’m years past thinking there’s any reason to “convert” you or anyone else.

                I find your premise to be flawed, and that’s my only objection. However, I don’t even care about your flawed premise enough to continue this discussion. You can go have an an OS argument with someone who feels like having one. I’m sure it won’t be hard to find.

                • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  You seem to be laboring under the impression that the success of Linux is tied to the needs of the mythical “average user”

                  Nope. You’re once again just fabricating statements that no one is making.

                  Linux is not a business so “success” can be measured in a myriad of ways. One of which could be the number of people adopting it as their main desktop/laptop OS. For that, it has to be able to run the software most people are using.

                  This is also the topic of discussion that you seem to be missing entirely.

                  in addition to thinking that Linux is somehow responsible for the fact that MS doesn’t make Office binaries for it, or Autocad doesn’t make binaries for it, etc.

                  More things you’re just making up. No one thinks Linux is responsible for those things. If you want to have an argument with yourself, feel free to write it down on a piece of paper or something.

                  I find your premise to be flawed

                  You clearly don’t understand what my premise even is, so you couldn’t possibly.

    • 3l3s3@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      We achieved both goals and now I have to force my Nvidia card into high performance mode because otherwise I have a black flicker on my screen constantly. It’s way better than it used to be, but it’s far from where it needs to be.

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        1 year ago

        Windows has it’s own hardware/software issues. Just because you get more adoption doesn’t mean everything will start working.

    • be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Get outta my head. 100% agree and could have written your post.

      Last time I wanted a gaming laptop (go away gatekeepers, laptop was the right choice for me) I grabbed the first RTX2080 machine that fit my price point from one of my preferred mfr and the build I did just after I got it is still on it today. Have done everything I wanted to with it.

      I wanted something smaller and lighter for some other tasks recently, so without much money to spend grabbed a 4ish year old refurbished Lenovo. Touchscreen, stylus, fingerprint reader, everything just works. I did no research beyond a quick google to be sure there weren’t immediate results telling me to stay away for Linux for that specific model.

      I can’t remember the last time I cared what someone else ran on their computer, and at this point I’m annoyed that ZDNet and others think I’m supposed to.

      I also use and support Windows at work, and I know how absolute bullshit the idea that everything works flawlessly on Windows is. (Setting aside things like “telemetry”, the way you have to force windows to behave as desired, all the other privacy stuff, and all the ads) But, at least I only touch windows when being paid to do so now, so there’s that.