BraveSirZaphod

I can imagine a non-zero amount of people would consent to a deep-fake porn video of themselves having sex with some generic hot woman, just as one example.

Your average pseudoscience obsessed health hobbyist is never going to notice that particular detail though.

It’s just amusing that these people know that they can’t openly say “I think all Israelis should be either removed or murdered”, so they’ll just heavily imply it without having the balls to actually own up to their position.

Speaking as someone who would not at all be upset to see a rocket happen to fall on Netanyahu and Ben Gvir.

You’re the one who seems to be incapable of actually stating a concrete desire that isn’t the violent removal or murder of all Israeli citizens, but by all means, tell me how I’m the genocidal one.

Okay, so who are the people responsible? A handful of leaders? Most of the original Zionists have been dead for a long time. Is it literally every single Israeli? What exactly does this freedom and justice look like? I don’t think locking up Netanyahu and Ben Gvir would exactly satisfy the Palestinian cause, so ultimately, you have the situation of millions of Israelis, most of which were born there, who do not want to leave and will only do so by force.

So, what do you want? The forced removal of all Israelis? That’s not an inconsistent position given your general perspective, but if that’s the case, come out and actually say it.

You’ve said a lot of nice abstract things about wanting freedom and justice, and very little actual concrete info about the situation on the ground.

Jews conquered large parts of Palestine (not all of it AFAIK)

This isn’t really true to the historical record, not that it’s significantly relevant to the modern conflict. Contrary to the Biblical Exodus account, from what the archeological and linguistic record seems to show, a unique Jewish culture seems to organically emerge from a particular group of Canaanites who were not otherwise previously distinct from any of their neighbors. There certainly was no mass migration and conquest from Egypt. Over time, the Jews/Israelites developed a distinct cultural identity, possibly with some amount of external influence, and later developed individual minor kingdoms before being subjugated by the Egyptian New Kingdom, the Assyrians (thus the Lost Tribes of Israel), the Babylonians (thus the first Exile and the destruction of the first Temple), the Persians (who returned the previously exiled Jews), Alexander the Great, and lastly the Romans, who destroyed the Second Temple and began the Diaspora.

Again though, none of this should really be seen as being particularly relevant to the modern issue any more than Roman territorial claims are to the modern borders of Italy.

Oh, come on now. And what, exactly, do you want to happen the evil Zionists?

Sure, it’d be nice if there was a cute kumbaya moment, but absent that, if Israelis have no desire to leave, what do you want to happen to them?

If you believe that the murder of all Israelis is just, come out and actually say it. Don’t be shy now.

So much for “believe victims”.

To say that I am disappointed would imply having had expectations, and I’ve long since stopped having those here.

Kenya is one of the major supplier of UN Peacekeeping forces. It’s not at all unusual for Kenyan forces to be involved in something like this, anywhere in the world.

And for better or for worse, optics matter. You really don’t think that the US military moving in wouldn’t bring a storm of controversy and accusations of neo-colonialism?

No, it is not, and I’m not going to allow you to just walk back your claims after some inconvenience. To quote you yourself:

This just means that Sweden will have [to] send their troops to fight wars in middle east for oil companies.

No, it doesn’t. NATO membership does not mean that anyone is forced to fight wars in the Middle East. If that were the case, all of NATO would have been roped into the Iraq invasion, but they weren’t. The vast majority told America to fuck off during the invasion, and only lightly participated in some minor training operations with the Iraqi military afterwards.

And again, Sweden not being in NATO did not prevent it from participating in other NATO campaigns in a voluntary capacity. Your claim that Sweden joining NATO means that it’s going to be forced to participate in all these Middle Eastern wars against its will simply does not stand up to even a cursory look at actual reality. You can believe whatever you like since it appears that you’re immune to facts, but anyone else reading this should know that you’re not saying anything based in actual evidence.

Also, if you really think that ten Norwegians trying to teach Iraqi soldiers how to resist the groups that later became ISIS is an example of the “horrible things” that NATO does, that says much more about you than it does about NATO. The world is actually more complicated than “US brainwashes the world into killing the third world because oil”.

Cheers.

And again, the only mandatory after Article V have been monitoring and patrolling US airspace for a few months after 9/11 and some maritime operations in the Mediterranean to protect shipping and prevent terrorism and smuggling. All those other NATO operations were voluntary, and other NATO countries have happily told the US to fuck off when they don’t want to be involved.

Also, Sweden, despite not being in NATO, also participated in operations in Afghanistan. Your premise that being in NATO necessarily causes you to be involuntarily dragged into gallivanting around the Middle East is simply false. Other nations have autonomy and agency, actually. Not everything is about America.

This was all after the invasion to support the fledgling new Iraqi government.

If ten trainers from Norway training the Iraqi military to resist terrorist attacks is your idea of an example of gross western imperialism, you’ll have to forgive me for not being hugely convinced.

Unless you’re implying that Gaza is a part of Israel, which truly would be a pretty bold claim that not even Netanyahu makes, I’m pretty sure not even you think that there’s a genocide in Israel.

NATO didn’t participate in the invasion of Iraq, so what exactly are you talking about?

You might remember the term ‘coalition of the willing’. The only major ally the US actually got to come along with us to Iraq was the UK. Everyone else rightfully sat out of that mess.

Such as when America tried to lead everyone into a predictably disastrous invasion of Iraq, resulting in most of Europe telling us to fuck off?

Truly, the ‘infulence’ of America is mighty and all must tremble before it.

It absolutely is; this guy is either an idiot or deliberately misleading.

Article V has been invoked exactly one time, by the United States after the September 11 attacks. The direct outcomes of this were two operations: Operation Eagle Assist, where NATO forces helped patrol and monitor US airspace in the immediate months after 9/11, and Operation Active Endeavour, a maritime operation where NATO ships patrolled and secured shipping lines in the Mediterranean. NATO itself was not directly involved under Article V in the Iraq invasion, though some members did voluntarily participate (hence Bush’s “coalition of the willing”).

There have been NATO operations in the Middle East under Article IV invoked by Turkey, which mandates only military consultation from members, not direct intervention, though they may voluntarily participate if they want. Likewise, NATO was involved in Afghanistan (which, it should be noted, is not in the Middle East) and Libya in a similar voluntary capacity. It should be noted that, despite not being a member, Sweden did participate in NATO operations in Afghanistan, voluntarily.

Sweden is only obligated to participate in military action if a member state is actively attacked. Otherwise, it’s able to voluntarily participate in other NATO operations, as it has already done in the past. That NATO is a tightly organized and coordinated international military organization makes it really useful for large international operations - generally directed by the UN - but outside of defensive invocations of Article V, these are strictly optional, and members very much have refused to participate in American-led operations that they don’t agree with (see Iraq).

Israel has won simultaneous wars with all of its neighbors, multiple times.

US dollars are a de facto currency in Argentina. You don’t hold on to Pesos for long if you can help it.

It’s not great.