You’re totally right dude! We could have totally done all those reforms without any of the violence! We just had to ask Hitler, Himmler, et al to pretty please let us reform their country!

You’ve opened my eyes man. It wasn’t the German people who were racist bigots as a majority. It was just the Nazi party leadership. None of the SS or Wehrmacht soldiers were racist. None of the German scientists or engineers making lethal gases were racist. None of the German workers building weapons were racist. None of the German civilians and minor political officials who looked the other way and ignored the stench of dead bodies coming from concentration camps were racist. It was literally just Hitler and a few of his pals at Kristallnacht.

Fuck off you anti-Semite bigot. Hamas and the PLO have had programs to brainwash children into hating the Jews. There are motherfucking anti-Semitic sitcoms and children’s shows. This has been going on for decades.

It’s a government focused on brainwashing every generation to be anti-Semitic as best they can. Obviously not everyone falls for it, but many do. Asking politely and refusing to use violence will not solve this. It’s a fucking disturbing problem. An older generation of bigots using their power to try and turn future generations into bigots just like them.

I cannot blame someone who grew up in that system for how they are. But that doesn’t mean they should just be able to continue being a bigot.

Grow up. Do some actual fucking research for once in your life. You’re sick and disturbed if you think this is okay or can be solved peacefully.

Hate only generates hate.

Taking the literal meaning of that, I can agree to a certain extent. But within the context of this conversation, I believe you really mean “Violence only generates hate.” History and I strongly disagree with you there.

Germany is one of the closest US allies and arguably the most important leader of the EU today. Part of how they got there was actually due to carpet bombing, interestingly enough.

I understand that Hamas is not the government of all of Palestine. But they were still elected. As for Mr. Abbas, you mean the guy who’s a Holocaust denier? The guy who allegedly helped fund the Munich Massacre? That’s the guy Israel should trust to implement a two-state solution?

Look dude, the reality is that “worst” case for Hamas, they only have near majority support in Gaza. A not insignificant part of the population wants to murder Israelis. How the fuck do you propose creating peace without massive amounts of violence? There are people who would happily murder a Jew if they had the means. And I don’t mean “means” in the sense that they could get away with it. Whether or not they get away with it in the “mortal” world isn’t of concern to them.

So yes, actually. A terrorist organization like Hamas needs to be slaughtered. They aren’t like the IRA fighting for independence. They are literally fighting for the genocide of the Jews according to their founding charter, founders, current leaders, and recruits. That’s an organization that must have its leadership wiped out to the man and closely monitored rehabilitation of members/conscripts at the very least.

The greatest flaw of the left is believing that in all cases peace can be achieved without violence. I want that to be the case, but the sad reality is that it’s not always possible. We all have free will. Some people choose to stubbornly cling to violence, and the only solution there is paradoxically more violence.

Dead children you say? There’s dead children on both sides. Only one side has dead children that are collateral damage. The other side has dead children who are purposefully targeted, molested, tortured, and executed by their opposition’s elected government. If that’s not clear enough for you, then I’ll just plainly say it. Hamas rapes, tortures, and murders children. Israel kills children in airstrikes, and I have seen no reliable evidence or confirmation from third-parties that those children are not the intended target. On the other hand, hundreds of international forensics experts have confirmed the atrocities committed by Hamas.

Among the seven claims included in the X post, one stands out: No babies were beheaded.

But decapitated babies were found after the attack, according to both a group of Israeli and international forensic pathologists and Haaretz’s own reporting.

A group of 200 forensic pathologists, anthropologists, radiologists and other experts from Israel, the U.S, Switzerland, New Zealand and elsewhere gathered at the National Center for Forensic Medicine in Tel Aviv to help identify remains from the Israsel-Hamas war.

They reported on Oct. 16 that victims of the Hamas attack were executed, bound and burned alive, and others were found decapitated – many of whom were babies. However, they said it was difficult to ascertain whether they were decapitated before or after death.

I’m against dead children on both sides. But I’m not in any position to actually do anything about it. The harsh reality is that we’re in this mess because people like you put pressure on politicians to act irrationally. For decades, Israel hasn’t been “allowed” to properly deal with terrorist organizations and the Palestinians have not been forced to take reasonable two-state solutions. So that’s lead to their radicalization over time.

If you truly care like you say you do, then you need to educate yourself. The death will only stop when all major terrorist organizations are slaughtered, Israeli radical groups like Likud are removed from power, and Palestinians forced to accept a two-state solution at any cost. Until the international community steps in to do this, then the death will continue and you will have only yourself to blame.

So, you think they are currently radicalized? Why do you think that is? Could it possibly be due to decades of people like yourself influencing their politicians who then further influence the stance of the international community to prevent Israel from putting down terrorist organizations and defending itself?

If you’re going to be concerned about the future radicalization of the Palestinians but put no thought or consideration into the present day “radicalization” of Israelis, then you need to shut up and stop commenting on this situation. In other words, your bias is clearly showing.

Just curious. Have you ever considered the radicalization of Israelis if nothing is done? 🤔

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

Typically, anyone on here who doesn’t “believe in” a free market is a tankie.

So you’re a tankie?

That’s patently false. I’ve debated anti-vaxxers with better sources than you.

Then what word would you use to describe yourself? Tankie?

And did they liberate the land? Is Jerusalem completely owned by the Jews today?

Oh, I see. Comparing lesser evils to say one is good is only okay when it fits your agenda. Does it matter that Israel doesn’t explicitly target children and takes measures to reduce civilian deaths while Hamas purposefully targets civilians and beheads babies in front of their families? No? They’re just as evil in your eyes? But the Muslim conquerors are “okay” because they were nicer conquerors for a time?

Fuck off you deceptive prick. Conquerors aren’t liberators.

Sure, Mr Tankie who has crushed 1000 totally not peaceful protestors before

Again, everyone who says would be absolutely, 100% correct. If Israel were actually committing genocide.

Just how conservatives somehow have no clue what the definition of “coup” is, neoliberals have no clue what the definition of “genocide” is. You’re just fucking wrong, you have no fucking proof to back up your claims of genocide.

What was Israel doing to commit Genocide before October? Blockading Gaza? That’s fucking genocide? You can argue it’s many things, such as a brutal crime against humanity. But fucking genocide? At best, you are utterly fucking delusional. At worst, you’re just another anti-Semitic mouthpiece for Iran.

Not a single fucking tankie or neoliberal knows what “genocide”, “colonization”, or “apartheid” means. You’re just sheltered fools who don’t know what real, insidious evil is.

That’s my stance as well. Peaceful co-existence can and should be achieved.

Only reason I constantly bring up shit like who conquered and enslaved who is because so many people like to claim “who was here first” doesn’t matter, but they inevitably fall back on that outdated logic. At the end of the day, the vast majority of the “pro-Palestinians” I interact with are just anti-Semites. They don’t actually care about a peaceful situation, they just want Israel to get fucked.

On top of that, a lot of people don’t realize that the Palestinian governments have a history of rejecting peace deals and working to genocide the Jews. So the history and context does matter.

For sake of argument, if this were true, I think the biggest thing is that it would show the international community has been ignoring intelligence and evidence of this and doing nothing. That means the blame is shifted onto the UN and the West imo

Who are we to tell Israel to not bomb resources used to hurt or harm their civilians when we’ve done jack fucking shit about it? The Israeli government, no matter who’s in charge, has a moral responsibility to protect its own civilians. There are still hostages to be rescued and Hamas is still launching attacks at Israel when it is able to do so. Israel just does not have the manpower or resources that we do. They can’t go door-to-door and try to minimize civilian casualties while also being prepared for an invasion from their other borders.

So if this is true and we want it to stop, then it’s the responsibility of the international community to step in and provide the resources needed to minimize or outright prevent civilian casualties. Israel just does not have that capability.

Right on. The people who are occupying the homeland of the original inhabitants of Palestine should be treated with no dignity and humanity. That’s how moral, civilized people should act!

By the way, did you know that the original “Palestinians” were Jews until the Muslims went in and conquered it? Crazy to think that the modern day “Palestinians” are the descendants of colonizers who created apartheid states.

Great! Every democratic and peaceful nation has the right to self-defense and self-determination. Just like Tibet. Or Hong Kong. Or the Uighurs. Or one of any other dozens of peoples subjugated by communist China. Fuck off tankie.

Sidenote for Sane People: Is it just me, or do a ton of lemmy.ml accounts seem to be tankies?

In that case, I’m assuming you condemn the government that beheads babies and support the government that at least puts in effort to avoid collateral damage and civilian casualties?

So, is your standard to condemn an entire nation and people for the words of one extremist? Huh…

FYI, you’re probably wasting your time trying to discuss anything with “CommieTrash”.

then I’ve never visited that part of the world before

Yeah, it sure sounds like you’ve never visited a Muslim majority country before. I can’t speak for the most war-torn parts of the Middle East, but I can say that even the “nicer” parts like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. have no shortage of racism and sexism.

You have no idea what the fuck you’re even talking about.