Basically I am looking for a messaging platform like signal or? but with anonymous signup, perfect forward secrecy, capable of video chat, sending photos the usual uses in today’s life. But with a panic button. So that any party member could use said button to wipe all other members devices of any data instantly inside the messaging app. So if one member gets compromised, or lost their device, stolen device ect, any other member could wipe all chats, call log, and any other data strictly inside the messaging client instantly for everyone involved. Disolving the group like it never existed rendering the data unrecoverable. Amazons Wickr used to have most of these features but it is being discontinued December 2023 and who trusts amazon with their data. Does something like this exist? Sorry if I’m not explaining it well I’ll do my best to clarify and update this post. I am not trying to delete the whole device. Just the data inside the messaging app. If that does not exist. What about a separate app that could delete the entire messaging platform from the device when triggered. Assume all necessary requirements are met and this is for daily use. Between a group of trusted parties.
Updated wording to clarify the objective as replies where getting misunderstood.
Using Signal with disappearing messages set to a really short time is probably the closest thing you can get. You can use a VOIP number from Cloaked behind a VPN to sign up anonymously.
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I hate relying on anything big corp for privacy. Thanks for the reply and I’ll keep this in mind. It seems so far matrix chat is the only e2e chat that can remove the conversation from an individuals device once their removed from a room. I will have to do deeper research into matrix to see it it fits my use cases. I’m just not sure how it stacks up against other big name chat platforms as far as security/privacy goes. I’ve heard of it before. Never deep dived into the data.
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Its my understanding the metadata is only stored on the home server that runs for the clients, so under a self host scenario the hoster would be the only party that could access such metadata. One big con to Matrix is that it lacks ephemeral messaging so I’m not sure if chat history is stored on client side once the server goes offline? I cannot find an answer through browser search or documentation. Couldn’t the hosted server be restarted anytime and it would essentially delete the metadata generated each cycle and chat history as well because the chat room would be deleted? Or ran inside say persistent Tails and with a device shutdown or unplug all data would be wiped due to its ram only nature while persistence only keeps the base setup of matrix not a full carbon copy so a new chat would be generated each power cycle. Similar to VPN services running on ram. Thoughts anyone?
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I mean theoretically if you are hosting your own chat server, for example on Matrix, you can easily make all the chats unaccessible from the clients by issuing a command to shutdown your server or simply the chat server service if there’s no content cached locally.
I think you can do this pretty easily with a raspberry pi by connecting via ssh…
Just use a shell script that changes the static ip to something else after the command to shutdown the service/wipe out the data (depending on what your goal is) has been issued, or use a vpn or something like that if possible, because anyone issuing the command would need to know your server ip.
And issuing a command by ssh to a remote server both from smartphone or pc should be as easy that you can actually build a very small app for that, or use some app that creates shortcuts that directly connects and issue custom commands.
That way you are forced to give people your new ip every time chats become unaccessible/deleted and someone can’t connect back even if wanting to without talking to you, unless you decide you can use the older ip for whatever reason.
Of course not using your real ip but using some service like a vpn or proxy (or tor?) would be much better here, but i don’t really know how.
That can give you full power on the chat history and create the said “panic button” for every client involved.
Wouldn’t chats be stored locally though? So even if the service was shutdown the app and its local contents would remain. Or does the service load chats after connecting to the home server, then your scenario plays correctly. Matrix doesn’t offer ephemeral messaging which would be a stop gap in this case if stored locally. I’m not familiar with Matrix.
There’s no way to prevent someone from retaining data once they have it. The clients would have to voluntarily cooperate.
Are there matrix clients that do this? Only fetch messages from server when needed and not store locally?
I guess probably, because Matrix is thought for private chatting, i guess someone else might have had this same idea, i think matrix is opensource so there must be some client that does this.
Even if there is, though, that would only affect you and the messages you read. If you sent it to others, they could still do what they wanted with it.
Yeah sure, you have to trust your users
Best I can suggest is keybase with an auto destroy message timer on conversations, so anything after a day or week is automatically wiped
This is called ephemeral messaging. A good feature of many apps. But doesn’t serve the same purpose for which I am asking. Thanks for mentioning another option other than the usual messenger apps. This is the description for others copied from a basic browser search.
Keybase is a key directory that maps social media identities to encryption keys (including, but not limited to PGP keys) in a publicly auditable manner. Additionally it offers an end-to-end encrypted chat and cloud storage system, called Keybase Chat and the Keybase Filesystem respectively.
Website here for those interested in reading about it -> https://keybase.io
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First things first, there is no app like you describe. You have to take my word for it. Let’s say a certain country’s law enforcement might be very interested in taking to me if it knew role in certain events.
I examined many messaging and chat platforms, and the closest to what you’re asking for are custom Telegram clients that go a longer way to ensure that TG’s local data gets deleted properly (by default it doesn’t, easy peasy to get data from the local DB, half cleansed chats from 6 months ago pop up in exports or even the UI, etc).”, has a built in double bottom for accounts, etc. An example of what I am talking about is here: https://github.com/wrwrabbit (check the repos yourself).
Secondly, you must understand that when the law enforcement seizes a phone, upon initial quick examination (sometimes using brutality to force you to unlock it), they will shut it down to ensure it is not connected to the Internet. And then criminalists will use a special black box device sold by an Israeli cybersec firm (its name always escapes me, but I think the product might be called Pegasus) to extract all data for offline analysis.
So thirdly, you must not rely on any app that conditionally removes data from a device. You must not entrust your well-being to it. Which leaves you basically the only choice: only ephemeral messaging capabilities which are available only when you are in the app, through the server over which you have full control.
Or your messaging sessions must take place only when you’re in a secure location. And even then you should have a “wipe all button” in case the police come after you unexpectedly.
