We’re seeing so many economic problems being caused too much wealth being concentrated. Supply side economics was a stupid idea from the outset, but now we’re in the supply side economics endgame.
The wealthy are using that wealth to make products no one needs while people are struggling to afford the things they actually do need. $3500 for Apple goggles? We don’t need that and couldn’t afford it if we did. How about yet another streaming service? Don’t need it, can’t afford it. Maybe some VR goggles the you can use to go into a virtual world where you’re a legless cartoon character? We’ll rename the company after this new product, that’ll get people to buy it for sure!
Well shit, it seems the wealthy have so much money, they don’t have anywhere to put it. Doesn’t seem like enough people are buying the products they develop with that wealth, so what can they invest that money in? I know, maybe they should put it into real estate! Great, now ordinary people can’t afford a place to live. Yay, supply side economics is working great!
Isn’t the usefulness of ventures rewarded or not by the efficient market? I really like VR. An emerging market like that is bound to have some design dead ends and wasted money.
What efficient market?
Trickle down never worked, this is end game capitalism, something else needs to be added to this mix to fix this mess.
Capitalism naturally ends up in this position. That’s why it’s so hard to “fix” – to those at the top, nothing is wrong.
Exactly. Capitalism is, ultimately, a variant of the Pirate Game, which has some spectacularly unintuitive results.
Exactly, capitalism is economic perpetual motion, you can’t have exponential growth in a finite system.
I might be wrong, but I think you mean infinite growth in a finite system.
You can have exponential growth in a finite system can’t you? As exponential is just that it gets faster and faster compared to linearly increasing variables.
I guess at some point growth has to stop being exponential in a finite system, but the same can be argued for linear growth I think.
Yeah I agree. It’s still called exponential growth, even if it’s temporary.
True, should be more like exponential growth in perpetuity or something but you get the idea.
Yes. Simple math.
And yet you already got a downvote for it.
You just described all major human societies over the ages. The issue is corruption and exploitation regardless of the core sociopolitical idealogy.
It’s not regulated properly, that’s the problem
But those regulations are constantly labeled as “anticapitalist” – because they are.
Why is it so wrong to poke at the inner workings of capitalism? Why must it be infallible?
Because the people benefiting from its brokenness aren’t ready to stop salting the earth for numbers.
…I think you may have misread my comment.
I’m saying it’s broken and asking why it should be accepted as infallible.
I thought they were just agreeing with you, FWIW
You’re right - but I can see how the tone was interpreted as oppositional, I could have worded it differently to direct that more clearly. No harm afaik, lol.
Regulation and reform isn’t anti-capitalist though.
“Real” anti-capitalism lies in the realisation that this system cannot be reformed, the status quo must be dismantled if we ever want to move past it and truly work towards values of freedom and equality.
That distinction would be a hard sell for most capitalists I know. Regulation itself is seen as tampering with the “free market”, and therefore anticapitalist.
Unfortunately for capitalists, the “free market” isn’t the defining (nor exclusive) feature of capitalism. Profit and private ownership is.
Capitalism really is trading goods for currency, and allowing lending and investment. What’s going on though, with unchecked companies and laughable fines, ruins the whole thing. In its current state, capitalism will be our undoing, but with proper laws, regulations and oversight, it could work.
The problem is, corps have grown too powerful already and can blackmail governments. It’s like other models that could work in theory, but never benefit the people in the end. Communism tends to lead to tyranny, for example.
People are just really shit at designing and running big societies.
Capitalism isn’t trading good for/with currency though. Socialist and Communist societies would still use currency as it is a lot easier than bartering everything. And in Socialists society, you can still have lending and investments.
Capitalism is the means of production and trade owned by private entities (be it a person or a corporation) to make profits.
You are right though, inevitably, capitalism leads to consolidation and monopolies which we see today.
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Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are only how the means of production/trade is owned. Wage labor can still exist.
In capitalism, the means of production and trade are owned by private entities. Worker trade their labour for a set wage. All the profit goes to the owner/shareholder.
In socialism, the worker owns the means of production and trade. If a coop is more profitable than the next one, the worker of the first coop get more money. The profits are distributed amongst the workers that produced the goods. The workers own the coop/company.
In communism, the state owns the mean of production. The profits of the coop/company goes back to the state and are then redistributed in the society.
Socialism can still have investment, but the returns necessarily be money. A certain good is needed. The worker pool their money to build a factory and make a successful product. The workers then get a return on their investment (they make more money than they initially had).
Trading with currency is the basis for capitalism. Capitalism is lending/investing. When you don’t have any actual wares at hand, but currency, virtual value, you trade for higher future virtual value.
You could barter cows and still be in a capitalistic society. It just wouldn’t be
Currency is just a way to simplify a transaction. I have a cow thatis valued at 100$. I get 100$ that I then spend on whatever. I don’t need to trade a cow for a 100 eggs, then keep 10 eggs and trade for butters.
Lending isn’t inherently capitalistic. I can lend a 100$ to my friend to start a business and he gives me back a 100$ after a time, no interest.
Colonial America enters the chat
let me bootstrap our national bank by using slaves a collateral.
I don’t think you understand how concentrated power causes society to serve the few over the many.
As long as the disparity in wealth (power) grows, more people are incentivized to serve fewer. It’s why we see the government controlled by the wealthy. It will always be this way (and get worse) so long as the disparity in wealth continues to grow.
This is by design.
Trickle down didn’t work in the 1980’s or anytime after that.
Trickle down did work in the 1940’s, 1950’s, and most of the 1960’s, it just wasn’t called “trickle down” at that time.
The difference was a punitively high tax rate that nobody actually paid, because they found better ways to spend their excess revenue than simply giving it to Uncle Sam.
It turns out that when the richest among us are forced to spend instead of lend, the rest of us finally start to earn fair wages.
It only worked for white people, not people of color
People of color were certainly repressed during this time frame, but not because of punitive tax rates on the highest incomes.
I can’t think of any mechanism wherein people of color in the 1940s through the mid 1960s would have been better off if rich people were taxed lower. So, I would have to disagree with your assessment: The confiscatory top-tier tax rate did, indeed, benefit people of color, just not nearly enough to offset the harms of legislated segregation and institutional racism.
Is anything ever going to happen though?
Sure, once the people who have their entire campaign funded by these rich people vote on our behalf
We, the wealthy ALREADY pay all of the taxes, lazy poors need to stop complaining! They drive around in fancy cars that they bought with their food stamp money
NOTE TO DOWNVOTERS: @[email protected] is a parody account. Their comments are always a caricature of things wealthy/business people say. They don’t use /s flags to indicate sarcasm. I am not this person, but I’ve seen them comment elsewhere and usually people understand the sarcasm.
People on the lemmyverse are just as stupid as the average redditor it seems
surges
Forgive me if I wait for changes before believing anything is happening. Shit surged a long time ago.
Covid facilitated the greatest transfer of wealth from the masses to the few in human history.
Ehhh Colonialist Spain would likely have a few choice words about that
Globally? Or just them?
They had a global empire
Really?
Yes. They stole so much gold it crashed their economy, ironically
This is one of the main factors behind my vote this year.
That, free dental, and also keeping the ocean from getting too close to my house.
