And of course all shit electric cars are all automatic. It’s part of the NWO agenda. They want to force us all into electric, automatic cars, Over my dead body! A car that does not produce smelly fumes when driving is not a real car. What I am supposed to smell when walking in the city? Air? Fucking dumb. On top of that they make no sound! There’s nothing to tune up to make my car sound like a racing machine. How I’m supposed to let everyone know I have a small dick if I can’t rev my engine all the time? Not to mention electric cars don’t emit CO2 so I can’t lock myself in a garage with the engine running and kill myself when I realize that no one is impressed by my car and my dick is still tiny. Absurd!
I’ve literally seen people post that they’d consider going electric if only it had an engine sound. Seriously, people who are old enough to have a drivers license want their car to go wroom wroom.
I get it. It’s the same reason all cars have a steering wheel, despite it being the most dangerous part of the interior. Joysticks just don’t give the same feel as when the captain steers the boat over the seven seas.
Steering wheels are enormous because that allows fine grain control, which you need at higher speeds. Switching lane at 70mph requires only very slight movement but turning the car around in a street you can go full lock.
A joystick would be fucking TERRIFYINGLY stupid lmao
While a wheel is more familiar to me, I don’t think it has many advantages over a speed modulated joystick, just make it as big as a hand so that you can have a hand for the joystick and lights and another for the gear stick, maybe put the control of the lights on the joystick if its more convenient
But cars move in an arc, the turning of the wheel is an extremely good analog for the cars movement. I really disagree and I submit that no one uses a joystick for sim racing, if it was better ppl would have latched on. You need the force feedback and control that comes with grasping a wheel and having the lever moment that a wheel gives. A joy stick has no mechanical advantage.
That’s true but when I talk about a joystick, I was thinking more in the line of a big lever connected to where the turning wheel is, the problem I see is that the servos to give the analog feedback would have to be stronger. As there is no precedent, we can’t see if it would stick
No it’s not terribly stupid. Handicapped people already use other controllers without any issues.
A steering wheel is already electronically adjusted for speed. The servo will work just as well regardless of the controller device.
Along with lane assistance and other “self driving cars” it should be pretty evident that there is nothing dangerous about giving up the physical turny wheely kindergarten toy controller.
It’s not just about precision, it’s about feedback. Being directly connected with the steering linkage gives valuable feedback about the road and the front wheels - just because handicapped people have an alternative that they may use out of necessity does not mean it’s a better solution.
In a fully autonomous car, sure perhaps a simple manual system as a backup makes sense but we aren’t there yet. You are talking absolute nonsense, and I can only assume you haven’t ever driven a vehicle.
I mean the wheel is definitely the best control mechanism for driving… whether or not it’s dangerous, there’s a reason the best sim racers use wheels and not controllers and it’s that they provide vastly more control. So nice argument except it’s all based on a false claim that joysticks are better lmaoooo
I think it’s just a matter of getting used to it. Something like a playstation controller would be easy to learn for most people. People who play racing games seriously wouldn’t use a wheel and pedals. It’s just too slow.
Huh? People that use steering wheel and peddles for racing games have a serious advantage, it’s far more accurate, I have no idea what makes you think it’s too slow or what that’s even supposed to mean.
Most people use a controller for racing games because there’s no setup or space requirements and it’s what they’re used to. Plus a basic decent steering wheel setup is about three to four times the cost of a standard Xbox or PlayStation controller.
Keyboard and mouse players win in FPS shooters, not driving games.
As someone who spent an inordinate about of time trying to play Test Drive III with a keyboard, I can assure you that a keyboard is a terrible interface for driving.
Later, Test Drive Le Man’s and PGR3 helped me learn that a controller is better than a keyboard, but still not great.
A wheel is by far the best control mechanism for a car.
A wheel is by far the best control mechanism for a car.
Well, here I am challenging that idea, and apparently that is a bit too much for most, but I have yet to be given any proof of the superiority of the wheel.
I for one would prefer to control my car using a theremin. How can you know that it is not better, if no one has ever tried it?
Well, if you truly think it’s better you’re welcome to put your money on the line to develop a prototype theremin-controlled vehicle and provide real world data to prove that it’s a better mechanism for controlling vehicles on public roads than a wheel and pedals.
Until that happens, I’m going to stick with the proven technology.
But in a racing game the wheels can also twist from hard lock left to hard lock right in a millisecond, not sure that’s possible or desired in real life
I was extraordinarily glad to have a wheel when my power steering failed and found myself having to turn the car using the strength of my arms and the mechanical leverage of the wheel. A joystick would’ve made the vehicle literally impossible to steer.
I’ll just leave this here. In short: a guy wrote a physics engine to simulate any combustion engine, and then further got it working with an electric motor so electric motors can use a simulated vroom vroom
I’ve literally seen people post that they’d consider going electric if only it had an engine sound.
In many regions now it’s actually mandated that EVs make additional noise when moving at low speeds (less than 40km/h or so). There were concerns that quiet vehicles would have more pedestrian accidents.
I imagine you “can”, it’s just not very effective. Like, if they allowed you to switch it to regenerative breaking and let it roll down a hill. The problem is you can’t get out any more energy than you put in. So if the battery is dead and you roll down the hill you won’t be able to rull any farther up the other side than you started (even less when you factor in mechanical -> electrical -> mechanical. You’d probably better off putting it in neutral [if that’s a thing for electric cars] and just let it roll)
For safety reasons, the 400V main battery isn’t hardwired to the car. There’s a couple of contactors powered by the 12V battery that connect it to the car.
If your 12V battery dies, the contactors open and the car is completely dead. You have to jump it or replace the 12V battery, then the contactors pull in, then the main battery can start charging the 12V.
Even plugging it in doesn’t work - the car won’t take a charge if the electronics are dead.
If the main battery is dead but the 12V hasn’t died yet, you can try regenning down a hill or plugging in or whatever. But if you lose the 12V, the car’s bricked.
It’s set up that way so that first responders can get to an accident, pop the hood, cut the 12V and then start cutting you out of the wreckage without worrying about high voltage cables.
Yeah, obviously there’s technical reasons why. I was just approaching the problem theoretically. And then showing why the theory is stupid. It makes sense that they would implement other things for safety, especially if avoiding them only enabled a completely useless solution to a dead battery.
tl;dr: my PHEV does change gears when in EV mode, as weird as it sounds
So, I drive a Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in Hybrid EV (PHEV). It’s a hybrid with a larger battery so you can plug it in and drive fully-EV on the battery for about 30 miles/50 kilometers or so. The freaky thing is that the EV motor is connected to the transmission, so it does switch gears sometimes and you can feel it when it does. Even freakier is that this also applies to regenerative braking: when you slow down from a high speed, you can sometimes feel it switching gears while you brake. That all isn’t too bad since it’s got a dual-clutch transmission and so it switches gears pretty quickly, but it can still be a bit freaky at times.
Additionally: there are some people who have converted antique cars to EVs, but to save money they didn’t touch the transmission and instead elected only to replace the engine. They still have manual transmissions in them, though I suppose you could probably just find a suitable gear to leave them on 100% of them time. Still, you can, in principle, switch gears on them.
Typically I’ve seen people keep their car in 2nd (or reverse IIRC? That way your controller doesn’t have to support reverse and you don’t have to put in a new switch on the dash) in electric swaps. Also you don’t use the clutch pedal to start, only to change gears, which is a bit freaky when you’re not used to it.
On the highway there might be value in switching to a higher gear though, torque/efficiency curves aren’t perfectly flat even on electric motors. I would be curious to know what gains would be had on a modern electric platform like an ID.3 if one was to put in a cheap two or three gears sequential/manual transmission (for all I know the efficiency gains would not offset the additional losses from the clutch and gearbox, and even if they are some gains I’m sure that they do not make up for the inconvenience/lack of comfort of a MT).
Honestly the only issue I have with electric car sound, is that in the country side animals, listin for your engine. So silent electric cars make it all the more likely that your gonna hit a bear. I’m not even asking for them to be deafeningly loud. Other than that my only problem with electric cars in general, is that they are soo overall boring. The Tesla models are just generic car design smoothed over. At least the Prius has a neat double rear windshield. Honestly the only electric car I’ve been thinking of getting, are those new 2cevs that are being reproduced, but electric. The only fun cool cars being made today are Supras and Miatas. Everything made in America just looks like a blow up car thats about to burst. Drm just worsens them further because now I can’t mod or enjoy fixing them. Electric cars are just infuriating because they are just a battery connected to some motors. The complicated part is a fuckin computer chip why is everything sealed. All this effort for a car that looks like a car shaped cum blob.
Honestly the only issue I have with electric car sound, is that in the country side animals, listin for your engine. So silent electric cars make it all the more likely that your gonna hit a bear. I’m not even asking for them to be deafeningly loud.
Mentioned this in another comment, but many regions now mandate that EVs have noisemakers built in which emit sound at low speeds (<40km/h or so).
I suppose different places have different animals. But in my home state at least, deer were only a problem when my folks got a f150. That ironically enough was extremely quiet. It was easily my familys most quite vehicle we had. And it was the only vehicle that had deer jumping in front of it and even hit a bear.
I for one think that cars should be boring. And safe. Safe and boring. You want a fun car? Go to a racing track. You’re on a public road, sharing it with responsible people? Drive responsibly. Be boring. Shitload of people would still be alive today of everyone had a boring car and drove in a boring way.
I disagree because when we look at places like the Netherlands were they have driving alternatives ie bike, train and walk. Driving becomes more fun and the only people on the road are people who ether like driving or traveling long distances and driving accidents plumit. Compair that to amarica where driving is already boring, we have aggressive drivers, drunk driver and irresponsible drivers, and we have greater amounts of accidents. Because people who don’t enjoy driving are forced to drive and people who do enjoy driving have nowhere to go. It’s kinda like skateboarding with higher stakes. If you tear down skateparks, people who enjoy skateboarding with skate in public. Today we are expanding urban sprawl to the point that city’s are destroying the few race tracks that are left. So no duh hooners are going to hoon in public roads. The government destroyed the local track last year. So ultimately no I don’t think boring cars are the solution to bad driving. If anything it’s just gonna make it worse because no one cares about how well they drive it’s boring.
And of course all shit electric cars are all automatic. It’s part of the NWO agenda. They want to force us all into electric, automatic cars, Over my dead body! A car that does not produce smelly fumes when driving is not a real car. What I am supposed to smell when walking in the city? Air? Fucking dumb. On top of that they make no sound! There’s nothing to tune up to make my car sound like a racing machine. How I’m supposed to let everyone know I have a small dick if I can’t rev my engine all the time? Not to mention electric cars don’t emit CO2 so I can’t lock myself in a garage with the engine running and kill myself when I realize that no one is impressed by my car and my dick is still tiny. Absurd!
I’ve literally seen people post that they’d consider going electric if only it had an engine sound. Seriously, people who are old enough to have a drivers license want their car to go wroom wroom.
I get it. It’s the same reason all cars have a steering wheel, despite it being the most dangerous part of the interior. Joysticks just don’t give the same feel as when the captain steers the boat over the seven seas.
Wroom wroom, steer steer, wroooom, change gear while turning, push pedal, wroom wroom.
Steering wheels are enormous because that allows fine grain control, which you need at higher speeds. Switching lane at 70mph requires only very slight movement but turning the car around in a street you can go full lock.
A joystick would be fucking TERRIFYINGLY stupid lmao
Some vehicles use steering by wire, which uses motors for i/o. This allows for steering sensitivity adjustments based on speed or even* preference.
True, but sensitivity is only half the story - the direct feedback of a wheel cannot be overstated
You’re right, but that should be part of the system.
There is virtually no noticeable lag.
The same technology is used by F1 vehicles, for example.
Not lag, physical pushback from the wheels
Fundamentally a joystick is a device that gives input in 2 dimensions, while steering a car is a 1 dimensional input.
But the wheels only have one degree of freedom…
I think that’s what they’re pointing out, that a joystick has too many dimensions.
Just like the wheels on the car.
Those are the ones
Joysticks in remote controllers for toy helicopters are usually forced into one direction, you can just restrict one of the two dimensions
So a thing worse than a wheel?
While a wheel is more familiar to me, I don’t think it has many advantages over a speed modulated joystick, just make it as big as a hand so that you can have a hand for the joystick and lights and another for the gear stick, maybe put the control of the lights on the joystick if its more convenient
But cars move in an arc, the turning of the wheel is an extremely good analog for the cars movement. I really disagree and I submit that no one uses a joystick for sim racing, if it was better ppl would have latched on. You need the force feedback and control that comes with grasping a wheel and having the lever moment that a wheel gives. A joy stick has no mechanical advantage.
That’s true but when I talk about a joystick, I was thinking more in the line of a big lever connected to where the turning wheel is, the problem I see is that the servos to give the analog feedback would have to be stronger. As there is no precedent, we can’t see if it would stick
No it’s not terribly stupid. Handicapped people already use other controllers without any issues.
A steering wheel is already electronically adjusted for speed. The servo will work just as well regardless of the controller device.
Along with lane assistance and other “self driving cars” it should be pretty evident that there is nothing dangerous about giving up the physical turny wheely kindergarten toy controller.
It’s not just about precision, it’s about feedback. Being directly connected with the steering linkage gives valuable feedback about the road and the front wheels - just because handicapped people have an alternative that they may use out of necessity does not mean it’s a better solution.
In a fully autonomous car, sure perhaps a simple manual system as a backup makes sense but we aren’t there yet. You are talking absolute nonsense, and I can only assume you haven’t ever driven a vehicle.
I mean the wheel is definitely the best control mechanism for driving… whether or not it’s dangerous, there’s a reason the best sim racers use wheels and not controllers and it’s that they provide vastly more control. So nice argument except it’s all based on a false claim that joysticks are better lmaoooo
I think it’s just a matter of getting used to it. Something like a playstation controller would be easy to learn for most people. People who play racing games seriously wouldn’t use a wheel and pedals. It’s just too slow.
Huh? People that use steering wheel and peddles for racing games have a serious advantage, it’s far more accurate, I have no idea what makes you think it’s too slow or what that’s even supposed to mean.
Most people use a controller for racing games because there’s no setup or space requirements and it’s what they’re used to. Plus a basic decent steering wheel setup is about three to four times the cost of a standard Xbox or PlayStation controller.
Huh. I guess times have changed. It used to be that keyboard players would always win.
Anyway it doesn’t change my opinion on the topic. Car steering wheels are stupid and only kept relevant because it’s fun to turn.
Keyboard and mouse players win in FPS shooters, not driving games.
As someone who spent an inordinate about of time trying to play Test Drive III with a keyboard, I can assure you that a keyboard is a terrible interface for driving.
Later, Test Drive Le Man’s and PGR3 helped me learn that a controller is better than a keyboard, but still not great.
A wheel is by far the best control mechanism for a car.
Well, here I am challenging that idea, and apparently that is a bit too much for most, but I have yet to be given any proof of the superiority of the wheel.
I for one would prefer to control my car using a theremin. How can you know that it is not better, if no one has ever tried it?
Well, if you truly think it’s better you’re welcome to put your money on the line to develop a prototype theremin-controlled vehicle and provide real world data to prove that it’s a better mechanism for controlling vehicles on public roads than a wheel and pedals.
Until that happens, I’m going to stick with the proven technology.
I’d put my hand up to try that! (And then crash into the nearest tree because I put my hand up to try that 😉).
So much fun 😊 and don’t forget the vroooom
But in a racing game the wheels can also twist from hard lock left to hard lock right in a millisecond, not sure that’s possible or desired in real life
Rolling over is desired
That is not true at all, unless the racing game is NFS or something. The people seriously playing racing sims all use wheels and pedals.
Clearly, you don’t frequent simracing communities.
I mean, you can steer a submarine with it, am I right?
I was extraordinarily glad to have a wheel when my power steering failed and found myself having to turn the car using the strength of my arms and the mechanical leverage of the wheel. A joystick would’ve made the vehicle literally impossible to steer.
It’d have to be a long joystick.
thats what she said
I’ll just leave this here. In short: a guy wrote a physics engine to simulate any combustion engine, and then further got it working with an electric motor so electric motors can use a simulated vroom vroom
https://youtu.be/4U41OxHiqI8
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/4U41OxHiqI8
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
In many regions now it’s actually mandated that EVs make additional noise when moving at low speeds (less than 40km/h or so). There were concerns that quiet vehicles would have more pedestrian accidents.
There actually is an EV with engine sounds and a “manual transmission” from Toyota. According to ArsTechnica, it’s supposed to be pretty good:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/
Yeah but that 40 year old with a 4k computer, 90 series card, more lighting than fast and the furious, surrounded by 10k of plastic figures is 👌 Chad.
They aren’t, really. They don’t actually change gears, if you want to go backwards you spin the motor backwards.
Hilariously, jump starting EVs is a thing if the 12V battery dies. And no, you can’t roll start them.
I imagine you “can”, it’s just not very effective. Like, if they allowed you to switch it to regenerative breaking and let it roll down a hill. The problem is you can’t get out any more energy than you put in. So if the battery is dead and you roll down the hill you won’t be able to rull any farther up the other side than you started (even less when you factor in mechanical -> electrical -> mechanical. You’d probably better off putting it in neutral [if that’s a thing for electric cars] and just let it roll)
No, you actually can’t.
For safety reasons, the 400V main battery isn’t hardwired to the car. There’s a couple of contactors powered by the 12V battery that connect it to the car.
If your 12V battery dies, the contactors open and the car is completely dead. You have to jump it or replace the 12V battery, then the contactors pull in, then the main battery can start charging the 12V.
Even plugging it in doesn’t work - the car won’t take a charge if the electronics are dead.
If the main battery is dead but the 12V hasn’t died yet, you can try regenning down a hill or plugging in or whatever. But if you lose the 12V, the car’s bricked.
It’s set up that way so that first responders can get to an accident, pop the hood, cut the 12V and then start cutting you out of the wreckage without worrying about high voltage cables.
just bridge them with a screw driver
Yeah, obviously there’s technical reasons why. I was just approaching the problem theoretically. And then showing why the theory is stupid. It makes sense that they would implement other things for safety, especially if avoiding them only enabled a completely useless solution to a dead battery.
We just need to make all roads go downhill
Both ways.
tl;dr: my PHEV does change gears when in EV mode, as weird as it sounds
So, I drive a Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in Hybrid EV (PHEV). It’s a hybrid with a larger battery so you can plug it in and drive fully-EV on the battery for about 30 miles/50 kilometers or so. The freaky thing is that the EV motor is connected to the transmission, so it does switch gears sometimes and you can feel it when it does. Even freakier is that this also applies to regenerative braking: when you slow down from a high speed, you can sometimes feel it switching gears while you brake. That all isn’t too bad since it’s got a dual-clutch transmission and so it switches gears pretty quickly, but it can still be a bit freaky at times.
Additionally: there are some people who have converted antique cars to EVs, but to save money they didn’t touch the transmission and instead elected only to replace the engine. They still have manual transmissions in them, though I suppose you could probably just find a suitable gear to leave them on 100% of them time. Still, you can, in principle, switch gears on them.
Typically I’ve seen people keep their car in 2nd (or reverse IIRC? That way your controller doesn’t have to support reverse and you don’t have to put in a new switch on the dash) in electric swaps. Also you don’t use the clutch pedal to start, only to change gears, which is a bit freaky when you’re not used to it.
On the highway there might be value in switching to a higher gear though, torque/efficiency curves aren’t perfectly flat even on electric motors. I would be curious to know what gains would be had on a modern electric platform like an ID.3 if one was to put in a cheap two or three gears sequential/manual transmission (for all I know the efficiency gains would not offset the additional losses from the clutch and gearbox, and even if they are some gains I’m sure that they do not make up for the inconvenience/lack of comfort of a MT).
Some have multiple speeds. I think the Porsche has 2 speeds for quick acceleration.
Be careful now. The German car and American gun industry might listen and team up.
Honestly the only issue I have with electric car sound, is that in the country side animals, listin for your engine. So silent electric cars make it all the more likely that your gonna hit a bear. I’m not even asking for them to be deafeningly loud. Other than that my only problem with electric cars in general, is that they are soo overall boring. The Tesla models are just generic car design smoothed over. At least the Prius has a neat double rear windshield. Honestly the only electric car I’ve been thinking of getting, are those new 2cevs that are being reproduced, but electric. The only fun cool cars being made today are Supras and Miatas. Everything made in America just looks like a blow up car thats about to burst. Drm just worsens them further because now I can’t mod or enjoy fixing them. Electric cars are just infuriating because they are just a battery connected to some motors. The complicated part is a fuckin computer chip why is everything sealed. All this effort for a car that looks like a car shaped cum blob.
Mentioned this in another comment, but many regions now mandate that EVs have noisemakers built in which emit sound at low speeds (<40km/h or so).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds
Apparently all the deer around me are fuckin deaf going by what cares I’ve seen hit them.
I suppose different places have different animals. But in my home state at least, deer were only a problem when my folks got a f150. That ironically enough was extremely quiet. It was easily my familys most quite vehicle we had. And it was the only vehicle that had deer jumping in front of it and even hit a bear.
I for one think that cars should be boring. And safe. Safe and boring. You want a fun car? Go to a racing track. You’re on a public road, sharing it with responsible people? Drive responsibly. Be boring. Shitload of people would still be alive today of everyone had a boring car and drove in a boring way.
I disagree because when we look at places like the Netherlands were they have driving alternatives ie bike, train and walk. Driving becomes more fun and the only people on the road are people who ether like driving or traveling long distances and driving accidents plumit. Compair that to amarica where driving is already boring, we have aggressive drivers, drunk driver and irresponsible drivers, and we have greater amounts of accidents. Because people who don’t enjoy driving are forced to drive and people who do enjoy driving have nowhere to go. It’s kinda like skateboarding with higher stakes. If you tear down skateparks, people who enjoy skateboarding with skate in public. Today we are expanding urban sprawl to the point that city’s are destroying the few race tracks that are left. So no duh hooners are going to hoon in public roads. The government destroyed the local track last year. So ultimately no I don’t think boring cars are the solution to bad driving. If anything it’s just gonna make it worse because no one cares about how well they drive it’s boring.