I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand, it makes for less of an echo chamber. On the other hand, their thoughts are fucking stupid and it hurts my brain to see them.
Happy to have them here. I almost never agree with them, but not only is it good to have your opinion challenged (though often wearying to have to repeat yourself), it’s good for THEM to have their opinion challenged too. Maybe only 1/100 will change their opinion after being challenged and seeing that their opinion is very much in the minority, but that’s 1/100 more than if we were all chatting away in a safe space with no opposing views.
(and to be clear, no I don’t think shit like nazis, devout racists etc is an ‘opposing view’ that deserves any debate)
I mean, I think they’re definitely still in the minority. It seems like there’s a larger proportion of them here than on reddit. I see more of their opinions here. Maybe that’s just how the algo works here regarding upvotes & downvotes and how comments are displayed.
It’s worst on lemmy.world I’ve noticed. Beehaw was right to defederate. Y’all need to tell them in the kindest possible words to go die over and over again until they don’t come back or you’ll end up like voat.
Yeah. I hardcore disagree with conservatives as a libertarian socialist myself, but I always want to hear what people who disagree with me (and people who agree with me) are saying, and engage in civil conversation with people who actually believe what they say.
The problem for me comes when shills (people who don’t believe what they say but get paid to say it) come into the conversation, or when people use outright disingenuous arguments (usually strawmans).
You very well may be correct, but I always like to assume people are good and are arguing in good faith until proven otherwise.
If I can “steelman” (opposite of strawman) their position, and argue against it easilly, I see no reason not to do so, and that also makes for a better argument for other people viewing the comment thread who may believe the false notion that climate change is either fake or not caused by humans.
To me, trying to argue that climate change is fake or not caused by humans is the same as trying to argue that the Earth is flat. Very easy to debunk.
If they actually believe it, I would like to argue the factual point, which is very easy to do. If they don’t believe what they are saying, then yes, I have a problem with it.
There is plenty of evidence pointing to the fact that climate change is real and that it is caused by humans. If they choose to not listen to evidence and hard facts, then they lost the debate. If they say that big money funded those studies, simply point them to the Big Oil-funded studies claiming that climate change is false, and the fact that they originally found that it was true, and then tried to bury it.
while I do completely agree with Apple depressing lack of any innovation recently, until modern foldable phones become commonplace, there is only so much you can do with a brick of glass.
before the display - “until you can figure out how to make a faster printer, there’s only so much you can do to get your calculation results from the ENIAC system.”
before the keyboard - “until you figure out a way to create punch-cards faster, there’s only so much you can do to enter data into a computer.”
before the mouse - “until you figure out a way to make people tap the arrow keys faster, there’s only so much you can do to navigate a screen array of interactive elements.”
before GUI operating systems - “until people get faster at typing in “DIR /P” on their keyboards and read the list of possible applications quicker than other folks, there’s only so much you can do to navigate and access a computer’s installed software.”
before the iPhone - “Until you figure out a way to make a better keyboard there’s only so much you can do with these Blackberry devices where half of the device is a screen and the other half is a full-size QWERTY keyboard.”
There is room for innovation.
Just because you cannot imagine it, does not mean we have reached some sort of “pinnacle” of design for these stupid little glass screens.
Apple has not innovated since Jobs died. Not because Jobs was some sort of genius engineer or even a great innovator, but because as Apple’s head, Jobs was an asshole tyrant that terrified those below him into doing crazy things he suggested on a whim… and sometimes that meant they came up with dumb shit like the 20th Anniversary Mac and the Newton… and other times it meant they came up with a couple of new good ideas like the iPod, and the iPhone.
That’s kind of a dumb way to make the point. Innovation isn’t necessarily apparent in a photo with no context or information. A bronze sword and a steel sword still both look like swords, but there a huge technological difference between them.
Yeah photos don’t encompass the entirety of evolving technology… but come on… it’s not like Apple has put the iPhone through a literal evolution of metallurgy or material science like the hundreds of years time difference from going between the bronze to steel age.
No, but it takes a person to control a company. A Person to direct the goals of a company.
So I guess Tim Apple is somewhat involved if there is innovation or not.
Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.
But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.
And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.
And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.
And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.
The current capitalism is the system that works best.
Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation.
I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.
The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.
And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.
Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.
UserDoesNotExist, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this website is now dumber for having read it. I award you one downvote, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I take offence in being called a troll. It’s insulting. You can’t just call someone a troll with a different opinion and claim that this invalidates my argument.
This is simply wrong.
Basic research comes from universities and institutes.
But most research, Including research with application potential, comes from the privat sector.
This includes the Pharma industry, the medical industry, the chemical industry, semi conductor industry and informatics.
It is mainly driven by big companies. In constant need to outperform their competition, or not to fall behind in research and innovation.
This is a good example of the worst kind of pseudo intellectual bs that tricks the uninformed. It’s confidently wrong in so many different areas that I don’t even know where to start.
Saudi Arabia has ‘proven’ whatever it has proven through insane levels of draconian state intervention in everything, a lot of oil rents, and using imported slave labour.
I don’t think you have been reading a single one of the articles.
The first one already is a not so fitting response to m claim that European style houses are ore resilient against extreme weather events.
The first one is about how wet bulb temperatures and extreme heat work. The second one is about Europe.
Whether or not they are ‘more’ resilient doesn’t matter.
Also I don’t think you know what Europe is. Scandinavian, Central European and British houses are mostly made to keep heat in during cold winters. They’re not good for heatwaves.
Mediterranean style housing is definitely better for heat. But that doesn’t stop Italy, Spain, and France from having deadly heatwaves.
The first one is about how wet bulb temperatures and extreme heat work. The second one is about Europe.
Whether or not they are ‘more’ resilient doesn’t matter.
Yes it does matter. European housing is well insulated. And definitely sturdier than US housing.
Also I don’t think you know what Europe is.
Yea, my bad. As a German I obviously have no idea what Europe is.
Scandinavian, Central European and British houses are mostly made to keep heat in during cold winters. They’re not good for heatwaves.
This is wrong. Insulation goes both ways. In summer it helps keeping the cooler night temperatures inside.
Mediterranean style housing is definitely better for heat. But that doesn’t stop Italy, Spain, and France from having deadly heatwaves.
Mediterranean housing is not especially good against heat. Wrong assumption.
Swedes, Germans and the French are doing a much better job than the mediterranes.
The demand side of the economy is the consumer population. The consumers decide what they do and do not want to purchase, therefore driving demand.
“Infinite need” implies that infinite supply could exist, or that infinite growth is sustainable, both of which are not true. Infinite need also doesn’t exist.
I will argue that people (for example) needing clean water increases the demand for clean water. This is why companies like Nestle are profiteering off of selling bottled water, and why the CEO said that water should not be a human right.
Wait. But someone has to bottle the water, right? Or is nestle supposed to do it for free?
Furthermore they have to compete with tap water. So the value of bottled water can only be the water itself + bottle + energy used to fill bottle + interest because their “service” is not for free. There is a justified interest to make a profit from one’s efforts.
I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.
But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development.
Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate.
So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.
Luckily, we can choose to reject reality and believe whatever makes us feel better.
I feel best believing the biosphere is gonna force humanity to “find out” for the last century of fuckin around with a recklessly unplanned terraform.
Love how the collective of humanity needs to find out because the richest few fucked around.
You can always find these people and make them find out. They are actively committing genocide against the human race.
But the rich are supplying a demand. And a ton of innovation wouldn’t be there without them.
Imagine thinking CEOs drive innovation lmao
Why does it seem like there are a ton more conservatives here on Lemmy than there were on Reddit?
My theory is they just had a habit of getting banned so they weren’t as visable
I don’t know how I feel about it. On one hand, it makes for less of an echo chamber. On the other hand, their thoughts are fucking stupid and it hurts my brain to see them.
They have the right to be here and express their thoughts.
What they don’t have is a right to our attention.
Ignore them and block accounts that get annoying.
Happy to have them here. I almost never agree with them, but not only is it good to have your opinion challenged (though often wearying to have to repeat yourself), it’s good for THEM to have their opinion challenged too. Maybe only 1/100 will change their opinion after being challenged and seeing that their opinion is very much in the minority, but that’s 1/100 more than if we were all chatting away in a safe space with no opposing views.
(and to be clear, no I don’t think shit like nazis, devout racists etc is an ‘opposing view’ that deserves any debate)
Idk. I’m on kbin and haven’t experienced that. Usually when I wish violent death on conservatives I get a ton of upvotes.
I mean, I think they’re definitely still in the minority. It seems like there’s a larger proportion of them here than on reddit. I see more of their opinions here. Maybe that’s just how the algo works here regarding upvotes & downvotes and how comments are displayed.
It’s worst on lemmy.world I’ve noticed. Beehaw was right to defederate. Y’all need to tell them in the kindest possible words to go die over and over again until they don’t come back or you’ll end up like voat.
For every person that choose to leave reddit…
There’s 5-10 “conservatives” who were ip banned and dont have a choice between Reddit and Lemmy.
They are not getting down-voted into nothingness for refusing to tow the party line.
I appreciate the variety of opinions presented here. Plus (in my experience) the conversation has been civil.
Yeah. I hardcore disagree with conservatives as a libertarian socialist myself, but I always want to hear what people who disagree with me (and people who agree with me) are saying, and engage in civil conversation with people who actually believe what they say.
The problem for me comes when shills (people who don’t believe what they say but get paid to say it) come into the conversation, or when people use outright disingenuous arguments (usually strawmans).
Assuming any conservative is arguing in good faith is your first mistake.
You very well may be correct, but I always like to assume people are good and are arguing in good faith until proven otherwise.
If I can “steelman” (opposite of strawman) their position, and argue against it easilly, I see no reason not to do so, and that also makes for a better argument for other people viewing the comment thread who may believe the false notion that climate change is either fake or not caused by humans.
To me, trying to argue that climate change is fake or not caused by humans is the same as trying to argue that the Earth is flat. Very easy to debunk.
You mean like the disinformation that this user is literally spreading in this very thread?
If they actually believe it, I would like to argue the factual point, which is very easy to do. If they don’t believe what they are saying, then yes, I have a problem with it.
There is plenty of evidence pointing to the fact that climate change is real and that it is caused by humans. If they choose to not listen to evidence and hard facts, then they lost the debate. If they say that big money funded those studies, simply point them to the Big Oil-funded studies claiming that climate change is false, and the fact that they originally found that it was true, and then tried to bury it.
People posting the same few thoroughly debunked ideas over and over gets really old.
But they kinda do. Imagine Samsung or Apple stopping innovation. Company goes bankrupt.
You think Tim Apple is coming up with their innovations? Lol
Yeah dude, just look at all the innovations Apple has made to their phones for like the last 10 years…
They got bigger… and the screens are brighter… and there are like 4 more cameras.
So much innovation. :|
while I do completely agree with Apple depressing lack of any innovation recently, until modern foldable phones become commonplace, there is only so much you can do with a brick of glass.
before the display - “until you can figure out how to make a faster printer, there’s only so much you can do to get your calculation results from the ENIAC system.”
before the keyboard - “until you figure out a way to create punch-cards faster, there’s only so much you can do to enter data into a computer.”
before the mouse - “until you figure out a way to make people tap the arrow keys faster, there’s only so much you can do to navigate a screen array of interactive elements.”
before GUI operating systems - “until people get faster at typing in “DIR /P” on their keyboards and read the list of possible applications quicker than other folks, there’s only so much you can do to navigate and access a computer’s installed software.”
before the iPhone - “Until you figure out a way to make a better keyboard there’s only so much you can do with these Blackberry devices where half of the device is a screen and the other half is a full-size QWERTY keyboard.”
There is room for innovation.
Just because you cannot imagine it, does not mean we have reached some sort of “pinnacle” of design for these stupid little glass screens.
Apple has not innovated since Jobs died. Not because Jobs was some sort of genius engineer or even a great innovator, but because as Apple’s head, Jobs was an asshole tyrant that terrified those below him into doing crazy things he suggested on a whim… and sometimes that meant they came up with dumb shit like the 20th Anniversary Mac and the Newton… and other times it meant they came up with a couple of new good ideas like the iPod, and the iPhone.
Hey, they came up with some interesting colours no one has used in 80 years.
That’s kind of a dumb way to make the point. Innovation isn’t necessarily apparent in a photo with no context or information. A bronze sword and a steel sword still both look like swords, but there a huge technological difference between them.
Yeah photos don’t encompass the entirety of evolving technology… but come on… it’s not like Apple has put the iPhone through a literal evolution of metallurgy or material science like the hundreds of years time difference from going between the bronze to steel age.
Okay but we all know iPhones and we all know that’s about it.
No, but it takes a person to control a company. A Person to direct the goals of a company. So I guess Tim Apple is somewhat involved if there is innovation or not.
That’s a good point. You must have a really smart boss to come up with ideas like that.
So you feel entitled and experienced enough to lead a company?
He’s very good with financials and supply chains, I’ll give him that.
And since the profits can be invested into research, it is somewhat linked.
No it doesn’t. Worker-owned co-ops exist. Didn’t you say you’re in Germany? You should know all about that.
I don’t know what you think of us Germans. But we are rational capitalists. And I do believe to know a lot about it.
Oh brother
Man I am kinda sorry, that I invade your worldview.
But rich people don’t have all their money stored in a vault like Dagobert Duck. It’s all stocks.
And boy, if one of the companies make losses, then their money goes downhill. It’s volatile.
And due to immense concurrence in innovation in the tech sector, every investor has a huge interest in innovation.
And with many investment, the start of a company is ensured.
The current capitalism is the system that works best.
Especially the US capitalism is one hell of a driver in innovation. I live in Germany and many companies wouldn’t be possible here. Even though we have capitalism, it’s much softer than its US counterpart.
The downside of course is poverty for cheaper labour.
And that’s brutal, but it’s the reality we live in.
Though I wouldn’t want to live in the US without healthcare, on the counter side I wouldn’t want to start a company here in Europe.
UserDoesNotExist, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this website is now dumber for having read it. I award you one downvote, and may God have mercy on your soul.
… A simple “wrong” would’ve just been fine…
Edit:
for those who missed the reference
Sorry if you do not understand the system we live in.
btw they do store a lot of their money in vaults where it doesnt benefit the economy at all.
This is in the form of expensive art that stays in containers in tax-free zones, and offshore accounts in tax havens.
Please educate yourself.
https://archive-yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/how-wealthy-sell-treasures-tax-free
https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2017/09/7-charts-show-how-rich-hide-their-cash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers
https://academic.oup.com/ser/article/20/2/539/6500315
But most of it is still invested in stocks. So those few links have relatively little impact.
Wealth hoarding is a massive problem irl
No it’s not. It has already been studied, that with an inflation rate of roughly 2 percent, that people are more willing to spend.
And currently we exceed this by far. And people do spend their money in an attempt to get the most out of it.
So wealth hoarding is currently no problem. And in a well managed economical state, it as well becomes no problem.
You mean the innovation that’s destroying the planet? Ok bro.
Removed by mod
Holy shit please tell me this person is just trolling us. I refuse to believe this is a real take
Anytime someone points to the Saudis as an example to follow…probably don’t need to listen to anything else they say.
I am no troll. I believe that I see the world as it is. I guess so do you.
Doesn’t matter much though. No matter what we do. We will see who is right. Luckily time passes all by itself. For now.
Yup, troll!
Move along people, nothing to see here.
In fact, I’m not sure this user even exists…
I take offence in being called a troll. It’s insulting. You can’t just call someone a troll with a different opinion and claim that this invalidates my argument.
But we’ve already seen who’s right. Most innovation comes from public universities and institutes.
This is simply wrong. Basic research comes from universities and institutes.
But most research, Including research with application potential, comes from the privat sector. This includes the Pharma industry, the medical industry, the chemical industry, semi conductor industry and informatics.
It is mainly driven by big companies. In constant need to outperform their competition, or not to fall behind in research and innovation.
This is a good example of the worst kind of pseudo intellectual bs that tricks the uninformed. It’s confidently wrong in so many different areas that I don’t even know where to start.
Maybe if you don’t know where to start means that you don’t know where I am actually wrong?
Let me grab a shovel for you so you can dig yourself deeper.
Dig myself deeper? I don’t understand. What are you referring to.
Come on Lemmy, how can you fall for this basic level of trolling
European style houses won’t save anyone from extreme heat
https://climate.nasa.gov/explore/ask-nasa-climate/3151/too-hot-to-handle-how-climate-change-may-make-some-places-too-hot-to-live/
Europe has had plenty of fatal heatwaves in the past.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/case-studies/heatwave#:~:text=More than 20%2C000 people died,Europe sweltering in August 2003.
Saudi Arabia has ‘proven’ whatever it has proven through insane levels of draconian state intervention in everything, a lot of oil rents, and using imported slave labour.
https://mideast.shisu.edu.cn/_upload/article/2f/5e/aaff7a9b4644a4b5234d6a4e6f0c/1f06bdf4-bf8b-4874-9567-d5412e350c32.pdf
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/saudiarabia0708/5.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_workers_in_Saudi_Arabia?wprov=sfla1
Hardly a model for anyone to follow.
I don’t think you have been reading a single one of the articles. The first one already is a not so fitting response to m claim that European style houses are ore resilient against extreme weather events.
The first one is about how wet bulb temperatures and extreme heat work. The second one is about Europe. Whether or not they are ‘more’ resilient doesn’t matter.
Also I don’t think you know what Europe is. Scandinavian, Central European and British houses are mostly made to keep heat in during cold winters. They’re not good for heatwaves.
Mediterranean style housing is definitely better for heat. But that doesn’t stop Italy, Spain, and France from having deadly heatwaves.
Yes it does matter. European housing is well insulated. And definitely sturdier than US housing.
Yea, my bad. As a German I obviously have no idea what Europe is.
This is wrong. Insulation goes both ways. In summer it helps keeping the cooler night temperatures inside.
Mediterranean housing is not especially good against heat. Wrong assumption. Swedes, Germans and the French are doing a much better job than the mediterranes.
European style house, 2021, Germany: https://piped.video/watch?v=Ork8a_qrw8s
A similar flood happened in 1804 in the same region. Exactly the same region.
The houses were placed in a strategically bad position.
And many had no cellars ( to reinforce the houses in the ground).
The worst kind of bootlicking.
Oh no, I was called a bootlicker and my ego will now collapse…
Are you sure it’s not the demand driving the demand? The rich are the supply-side of “supply and demand”.
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
The demand side of the economy is the consumer population. The consumers decide what they do and do not want to purchase, therefore driving demand.
“Infinite need” implies that infinite supply could exist, or that infinite growth is sustainable, both of which are not true. Infinite need also doesn’t exist.
I will argue that people (for example) needing clean water increases the demand for clean water. This is why companies like Nestle are profiteering off of selling bottled water, and why the CEO said that water should not be a human right.
Wait. But someone has to bottle the water, right? Or is nestle supposed to do it for free?
Furthermore they have to compete with tap water. So the value of bottled water can only be the water itself + bottle + energy used to fill bottle + interest because their “service” is not for free. There is a justified interest to make a profit from one’s efforts.
Nestle is stealing water from the people who need it. Sources: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/27/california-nestle-water-san-bernardino-forest-drought https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/us/nestle-water-california.html
It’s not their water to begin with.
Also in some places (Flint, MI comes to mind), tap water in undrinkable due to neglect, since fixing it costs more money than ignoring the health of the population. Source: https://apnews.com/article/health-michigan-rick-snyder-flint-detroit-a4578736862f47b980ae61ca72129811
Demand driving the demand?
Does needing something increase the need for it by itself into infinite need?
Like the
explosion motorcombustion engine?What’s an explosion motor? Motor ain’t supposed to explode.
… Do you really not know how combustion engines work?
They use combustion.
Shhh shhh. You gotta use crayons for the big words.
English is not my primary language. I believe it was explosion motor what you have written at first.
And while I am no expert of the workings of a modern combustion engine, I do indeed have an understanding of how a combustion engine works.
I also know what reaction takes place and I know the average fuel consumption of an average European car.
If it’s not an explosion, what is it?
Because literally any other answer that’s not a synonym for explosion is wrong…
It’s a controlled combustion. Not an explosion. Explosion is uncontrolled expansion of gases (also includes expansion without chemical reaction)
Ribbit
I give you that. Just a few were directly involved in innovation.
But the rich do quite successfully create the framework conditions for innovation and development. Mostly driven by profit, but a world based purely on goodwill fails at the first doubter, the first who does not want to participate. So capitalism is what we got. And so far it has proven to be more resilient than other systems.
Thanks to denial, I’m immortal!
Inspector 5 gave me his blessing!
How could he bring me into this world knowing I would die?